The UK Confirms Their Eurovision Entry and... What the Hell Just Happened?

Liam Heffernan: 00:00:01

Hello, London, we are ready for your vote.

Steven Perkins: 00:00:08

Hi, everyone, I'm Stephen Perkins and this is Douz Poir.

It's a very special off the cuff episode of Douz Poir, which we are recording live the evening of Friday 7 March, largely in response to the fact that the UK's Eurovision entry for this year was revealed this morning. And I am joined for this episode by our very own producer, Liam Heffernan. Liam, welcome back to the show.

Liam Heffernan: 00:00:29

Hello again. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a good one. It's a good day, I should say. But yeah, yeah.

Steven Perkins: 00:00:41

Let's have some thoughts then on Remember Monday and what the hell just happened is the title of the song.

I'm going to say, first of all, I think it is really important to go with your gut when you first hear our entry because ultimately the people who are going to be voting at Eurovision will only hear the song probably once. Even if they, you know, even though we get to perform it in the semi finals these days we did last year, a lot of people only watch the final.

They will see it that one time and they will cast a vote based on that one hearing of it. So I think it's really important on that note to just go with what you think when you first heard it.

My initial reaction to this song was that it was very strange because it, it starts and you think, okay, it's this kind of gentle, you know, sort of some nice harmonies and things and it's sort of the drums kick in and it picks up and you're like, okay, it's going a bit country now and then it just becomes something else.

It goes a bit sort of dancey and then they shove the brakes on again and it becomes, it goes back to one of the previous things and I think, I don't understand my problem with it. It's not like I have a problem with it.

I think what I'm concerned about is that the constant gear changes in song and they're quite crunchy gear changes. I think that makes it quite difficult to get that song embedded in your head.

I don't know if it's going to have the kind of earwormy quality that you're going to need to really get the televote in particular at Eurovision. What do you think?

Liam Heffernan: 00:02:10

Yeah, I completely agree with you in that it just on first listening it felt very mishmashy. A lot of different things going into it and it was a bit confus and, you know, having gone onto social media immediately after the song was.

Was played on Radio 2 this morning, what the hell just happened was, was probably a good way of summarizing the sentiment of most people who heard it. Yeah, it's. I don't, I don't think it's resonated too well.

And I think as well, you know, I'm big on sort of checking the odds and sort of who's sort of rising and falling.

Normally when the UK released their song, there's that little bit of hype, even if it is a bit short lived and we do see a bit of a jump in the bookies that has not happened. So that's not reassuring at all. We are around 40, 50 to 1 at the moment and we're hovering around 10th to 15th.

And considering we're already guaranteed despite in the final, that's, that's not particularly a good thing.

Steven Perkins: 00:03:18

It's not great, is it?

No, I mean, I think when, when we were listening to it and I sat next to my husband, we were listening to it together for the first time and he made the point, which I think is very, very good, very cogent point, kind of gets the heart of it, which he said that it basically feels like the end of a song over and over and over. And I think that's, that's kind of why we get through it.

It feels like it's a song that has, it's three minutes of end without a beginning or a middle and it's, you know, they're doing some interesting things with it, but it just feels very structurally weird to me. And I've seen people saying, oh, but you know, the juries will really love it because it's so structurally unique.

And I don't know if they will because I feel like if the juries are music industry professionals, they kind of know what a song's supposed to feel like and how it's supposed to progress. It's possible that they might genuinely love it because it is so different, but I think it's a, it's a big gamble.

I will say we did have a while ago on the podcast, you know, I was asked would I rather, you know, we played it safe or took a big swing. And I do think this is us taking a big swing.

I think this is us saying, do you know what, let's try something we have not tried before and see how it goes for us. And to that level, I do hold my hands up and say, well done to the BBC for taking a chance. We are going to see how it plays out.

It might work, it might not.

Liam Heffernan: 00:04:41

Here's the thing, I think, yes, they have taken a big swing, but I think they've swung way too wide.

I think, you know, taking a big swing would be putting a country trio in Eurovision and bringing, you know, country to the song contest, which is not something that's been really done before and it's a huge, huge market now. There's a lot of interest in it.

And that would have been a big swing in itself and that potentially would have played a lot better, rather than this sort of weird country, rock opera, poppy thing that they've gone with in what the Hell Just Happened. I also think that we've learned from Sam Ryder that actually as you kind of pointed out, maybe this was being a bit too clever.

And actually, even the juries don't need something that's too overthought, because Sam Ryder, Spaceman, that was a very simple song. It was. It was just incredibly well performed, it was well staged and we won the jury vote over Ukraine.

So I don't think that juries necessarily, as you say, kind of care much about really complex, clever songs.

Steven Perkins: 00:05:53

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, just pick up on your point just now when you said about country, Eurovision being kind of a new thing.

Obviously it has been done before. The Netherlands have gone to that. Well, several times. They finished second doing it. So we do know country can go down really well at Eurovision.

But the funny thing is, obviously, when the announcement was made this morning, Scott Mills absolutely dragging it out beyond all human perception as to who the act was, and we were all sat there shouting, we know it's Remember Monday. It was leaked months ago. It was mentioned on Radio 1amonth ago. The entire country knows it's Remember Monday. Just get on with it.

And so I think when we knew it was then, we were expecting something country. And this song, I think, has saved me lots of voice, because it doesn't feel like that's what it is. It feels. It's very kind of mishmashy, genre wise.

And I think the other big selling point that we were supposed to have with Remember Monday is that they are these really, really good, powerful live singers, which I'm sure they are. My concern with this song is I don't know if this song is going to showcase that for them.

There's, you know, when people say, you know, when you see fashion shows and stuff, and it's like, you know, you weren't wearing the garment, the garment was wearing you. And I worry if there's a musical equivalent to that, that's what this song is.

There's a possibility that it's just going to absolutely drown them in the stage and they won't be able to show themselves off to the best of their abilities. I really hope I'm wrong about that because, you know, I haven't seen what they're doing with the live yet. I have no idea.

And I really hope they've got something planned which is going to showcase incredible live vocals and really. Because I do think they've got some. Some great pipes.

These girls can really sing and the harmonies are stunning, but it's the structure of the song around it that gives me some pause.

Liam Heffernan: 00:07:37

Yeah, I share your concern there in that, you know, even if you liked the song, I just struggled to see how they deliver those vocals live because there's a lot happening, there's some big changes. I mean, it's. It's. Some people are calling it a mess. Even if you don't think that's the case, there's still a lot going on there. That. That I.

I think, poses a lot of challenges even to really, really good singers and really good sort of trios like. Like, remember Monday when they're trying to perform that live. I.

I will say, though, since listening to it on Radio 2, I have then gone on and watched the music video on YouTube, which Eurovision have now uploaded, and I think when you watch the music video, you. You can understand the vision and the story behind the song a lot more.

Yeah, my problem fundamentally is I actually think there's a big branding issue here in that I don't think Remember Monday and necessarily the best act to epitomize the story of the song. I feel like you need some more kind of chaotic energy and Remember Monday just don't bring that for me, I think.

Steven Perkins: 00:08:53

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, because I also often watched the video and I do think the video helps because it does give you a sense of what tone they're going for. And I think what it does kind of sell is that they. They seem like they're really fun people.

I do worry slightly in the video, there's an awful lot of face pulling and I think you don't want. If they. If they're going to go overboard with that on stage, that's a worry because I think that will. That will detract from the song.

I mean, I was actually going to say, I do think that the big upside of this whole proposal for this year is that, remember. Sorry, I keep falling over the name. Remember, Monday themselves do feel like really good ambassadors for the UK century.

They feel like, they're really fun, that they're really up for doing Eurovision, that they really want to be there. And I think you can't overestimate that at all.

If they want to be there and they can charm people when they go and do press tours, I think there's a lot to be said for that. So I think on that level, they're an fantastic choice for us. And the video did give me some hope.

But then I think, you know, you look at, like, Mae Muller's video for I Wrote A Song compared to what the staging was like for I Wrote A Song and they were completely different. So you can't always use the video as a measure of what the staging is going to be like. But we are kind of talking at this point.

We don't know what's going to be done. We're very much just speculating. So I'm doing my best to kind of trust in the process, to think that the BBC have. Have.

They've got some sort of long game in mind here, They've got an idea of what they want to do, they've got some good staging plans for it. We will see. I mean, heaven help us. Not. Not, you know, space gym, changing room, locker room, whatever we had last year. Nothing like that, please.

Liam Heffernan: 00:10:28

I think, though, that the challenge that the BBC burden themselves with by announcing the song so late on is that there's no time to respond to public opinion, to sort of take on board any feedback and really kind of tweak the performance and the song. You know, other countries do do that and, you know, even Malta, I mean, there's. I think there's a whole another episode in that Scanner world.

But even before anything got banned, they. They were saying, you know, we'll. We'll take anything on board, we'll roll with it. We still have time to tweak. When you.

When you announce your song two months before the contest, three days before the deadline, you really don't give yourselves that freedom to make any changes.

So, I mean, I'm going to assume that what they've got already behind the scenes is a finished product, something ready to go, and only really minor stuff can be done now.

Steven Perkins: 00:11:27

Yeah, I mean, I think that's. That's the other point I wanted to make, actually, which is that in terms of the actual release of.

Of the announcement this year just feels like it has been a bit of a masterclass in how not to do it, because we have all known, as I said for at least a month, that it was, remember, Monday and It's just been like the worst kept secret in Eurovision and it's sort of frustrating to me that the BBC didn't just confirm them.

Even if the song wasn't ready, they could have said, okay, we're confirming that they are indeed the act and the song will be released on X day and kind of try to build some hype up that way. And it just feels like they've kind of been constantly behind the story the whole time.

So when they tried to have this, this big kind of huge announcement of it, it was so anti climate because we all knew.

Liam Heffernan: 00:12:15

And it feels like some genius at the BBC has tried to mastermind a campaign of like leaking it without, you know, owning it and, you know, because it's just been a calamity of errors. You had the, the Radio One sort of mess up that triggered it all and then you had the leaking.

Remember Monday in the Radio Times for tonight's, you know, big Eurovision party show.

You had, remember Monday putting all the what the hell just happened Merch on their TikTok yesterday, you know, the day before it was announced, and then quickly removing it. It just, it feels like there's something quite deliberate about it and if that's the case, it was.

Someone made a terrible, terrible series of decisions there.

Steven Perkins: 00:12:58

It's, yeah, it's very chaotic and I think quite BBC in that regard.

But yeah, and I think the problem was they were kind of saying, oh, the reason we aren't confirming yet is because we want to do the whole thing in one go. We want to reveal the artist and the song and have kind of it ready to go.

So I think the problem with doing that is that then you set expectations very high that when we hear this song, it's going to be the finished product. So when they played it this morning and I was listening to it and I'm thinking, oh, dear.

Like, I don't know, this feels like it still maybe needs, maybe just needs a little bit more fine tuning just so it doesn't. So it's not quite so jarring, you know, those various points of it.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's going to be an interesting few months in the run up to Eurovision.

We'll see what the, what the press campaign will be like because it does feel like the BBC has a lot of confidence, particularly in the act, if not necessarily the song. So. And I just, they, they do. I've heard on the grapevine that they aren't just kind of, you know, Eurovision, what's the word?

Fair weather supporters that at least one of them is a proper hardcore Eurovision fan and is really, really stoked to be doing this, which I think is great. I think that's the kind of energy you want.

Because I felt like, as much as Ollie Alexander last year was kind of talking about how much he loved Eurovision and how much he always wanted to do it, and I'm sure he did, but it didn't ever really feel like he was thrilled to be there. Whereas I am getting that from Remember Monday. I feel like they are genuinely. This just feels exactly what they wanted to happen.

Liam Heffernan: 00:14:30

Yeah. And I'm. I'm with you. I think it's.

It's so great that they clearly have a lot of energy and excitement for Eurovision, and if they can bring that to the stage, that's, you know, that's part of the battle. Right. And that's something that we have lacked in some acts in recent years, but it is only part of the battle. And I think the. The very.

The very damp reception that we've had to the song today and the weird way that everything's kind of been released over the last month, I just. I just. I'm not. I'm not feeling it.

Call me a cynic, maybe we've covered this far too much over the last few years, but I'm just feeling a bit jaded and I hope they surprise me. But, yeah, you know, it's. I just. We're not starting from a good position, in my opinion.

Steven Perkins: 00:15:23

Yeah, no, I think that's. That's fair enough. And I mean, we're. We are kind of at that position where the. The kind of. The lineup is pretty.

It's pretty close to completion now, so that. That we. We do sort of have a fair idea of what we're up against. And I think I said in one of the very recent episodes that we could.

We had the kind of opportunity because we didn't feel like we had a winner yet. We could have just turned up and been like, bam. You know, the UK is not messing about this year. And I feel like we've not. We've not quite done that.

But as I said, I do. Whatever my reservations about the song, I like that we are giving something a go. We are putting our full weight behind a concept and an idea.

And, you know, I think I'd always, always rather do that and fail than play it safe and also fail, if you see what I mean.

Like, if we're doomed to do badly at Eurovision, as we often are, I'd rather we at least did it with A concept rather than with some very kind of middle of the road, generic Radio 2 friendly kind of nothing.

Liam Heffernan: 00:16:21

I. I agree.

much of the noughties and the: 2010

Even with, you know, with May Muller, I think at least they had a concept. Yeah, they didn't really execute it very well and it didn't translate on stage, but they had a concept. Same with Ollie Alexander. It just didn't hit.

But I think you're right. I think, you know, we're on the right lines by doing that. You know, you're either going to miss big or you're going to hit big.

But you're not going to win if you don't. Right?

Steven Perkins: 00:17:05

Yeah, exactly. And we're probably not going to win either way for a while. But I do, at least.

I like that we're giving it a go and we're trying something and, you know, the song is kind of. It's building with me a little bit, so we will see how I feel about it. But as I said, you can't really afford to be a grower at Eurovision.

You need to hit people straight with that first performance.

So I really, really hope they've got something in the tank for that big moment on the Saturday night in May where they can just wham everybody at home and make them go, brilliant. I want to pick up a vote for that. So we shall see.

Liam Heffernan: 00:17:40

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, yeah. Who knows? Who knows what Europe thinks as well? You know, we're getting a very isolated opinion from, you know, people in this country.

Maybe that's what we're doing wrong. Maybe. Maybe. Actually, we need to think a bit more about how the rest of Europe sees us and sort of lean into that a little bit more.

And maybe that's going to resonate better with. With the rest of Europe.

Steven Perkins: 00:17:59

Yeah, yeah. You never know. So it'll be really interesting to see what happens over the next few months and I genuinely, really do hope it kind of.

It pays off this. This gamble that we're taking, because it's, you know, as cynical as I am. I want us to do well at Eurovision.

I don't want us to always be at the bottom of the leaderboard. I really, really want us to turn up and represent ourselves well and we'll see how that one goes.

But, yeah, we could sit here and argue with us about this all night, but I think we should let the listeners go at this point.

And I will say that I will be back on Monday to wrap up the remaining of the national finals and the other songs which have been confirmed over the last seven days since our previous episode. So lots to look forward to there. And of course, the news and everything that's happened with Malta.

We'll try and get into that as much as humanly possible. Liam, thank you very much for joining me again this evening.

Liam Heffernan: 00:18:57

It's a pleasure, as always, and thank.

Steven Perkins: 00:19:00

You to everyone for tuning in. Please, please do come back and join us for our next episode. As always, please subscribe if you haven't done so already. And until next time. Time.

Good night, Europe, and good morning, Australia.